Thoughts on life, love and faith by Plasticmind.

Closing Statement by John Rankin

Moderator: Now gentlemen, I'm going to keep the three minutes, and I believe we'll keep the same order? Or do you want to reverse the order?

Fred: Reverse the order, I get to go last. That was the agreement.

Moderator: Yes, normally we would reverse the order, so you have three minutes.

John: Actually no, Fred, look at your e-mail, that wasn't the agreement. What we do in debates the way I order it is whoever goes first goes first at the end so that the person who goes first doesn't get the last word. I don't care if I go first or second, so I will go.

Let me just sum up the reality today. Fred Phelps has said, and has refused to answer the question, is the Bible based on the doctrines of creation, sin, and redemption. Genesis 1 & 2 is the creator. Genesis 3 is the beginning of sin and the promise of redemption. And he cannot say no to that. Every time I tried to bring him back to where the Bible starts, and how the Bible informs his doctrines, he refused to do so. And a central element here deals with human freedom.
And so my understanding of how Fred has used the Bible today is doctrine, atomistically, without story. Now what do I mean by that? He's quoted many passages. When I've asked him good questions, he has started quoted Timothy or someone else saying that I'm heathen and heretic, and so forth. He doesn't answer the questions, therefore my conclusion, and my question about Luther and the Bible. Now Luther was a great man of God. He had a lot of sins as well, no different than any of us. But Luther, does Luther's doctrine of the Bondage of the Will define the Bible? Or did Luther depend on the Bible? And those of us who do depend on the Bible can still be erroneous, there's no question about that.

But I asked a simple question. Does the Bible define Luther, or does Luther define the Bible? And Fred Phelps wouldn't answer that. And so what I see him doing is not treating the stories of the Bible. So when God in Malachi says, Esau I hated, Jacob I loved, that goes back to the whole history of the Bible, and it goes back to where hate and love begins, it goes back to the order of creation. So it's simply throwing this quote and that quote against people, it's not embracing the story of the Bible on its own terms.

This is why my comment a minute ago was, the God of Fred Phelps is a God who is impotent. He is a slave master like the pagan deities. He's not good enough in his freedom, when he makes us in his image, to receive that freedom in our limitedness.

And so what we have here is very clear, and Fred has agreed to this, that hate defines love. And so I asked the question, First John 4 says God is love. And that's a definitive statement. Where in scripture does it say God is hate? His hate against sin, and eventually against sinners, is also a subcategory of his love that allows him to say no.

And one final element for you. If you just want to look at verses in the Bible and add them up, look for every time you find hate and look every time you find love. It's a ten to one ratio of love to hate, it's not even including grace, which is the most important understanding of love.

Finally, those of you interested in the ministry of the TEI, propaganda on the back table, I'll let you interpret that word as you please, and also volume 1 of my three-volume set, First The Gospel, Then Politics.... If you're interested in knowing more about my ministry and supporting it, the information is there as well.

And may God bless each one of you, because blessings trump cursings, and mercy trumps judgment for those who choose it. [audience applause]

Closing Statement by Fred Phelps

Sodomites and homosexuals are wicked sinners before the Lord exceedingly, Genesis 13:13; a violent and doomed nation, Genesis 19:1 to 25; they are abominable to God, Leviticus 18:22; they're worthy of death for their vile, depraved, unnatural sex practices, Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:32.

They're called dogs because they're filthy, impudent, and libidinous, Deuteronomy 23:17, Philippians 3:2; they produce by their very presence in society a kind of mass intoxication, from their wine made from grapes of gall, from the vine of Sodom, and the fields of Gomorrah, which poisons society's mores with the poison of dragons and the cruel venom of asps, Deuteronomy 32 and 33; they declare their sin and shame on their countenance, Isaiah 3:9; are shameless and unable to blush, Jeremiah 6:15; are workers of iniquity and hated by God, Psalm 5:5.

They are liars and murderers, John 8:44; filthy and lawless, Second Peter 2, 7, and 8; natural brute beasts, Second Peter 2:12; dogs eating their own vomit, sows wallowing in their own feces, Second Peter 2:22; will proliferate at the end of the world, bringing final judgment on mankind, Luke 17:28-30; have been finally given up by God to uncleanness, dishonoring their own bodies among themselves, to vile affections and to a reprobate mind such that they cannot think straight about anything, Romans 1:23 to 28; they have wholly given themselves over to fornication and going after strange flesh, Jude 7.

They must be pulled as faggots from the fire, Jude 23; have no hope of heaven unless they repent, Revelation 22:15; which they cannot do in their prideful state, Jeremiah 6:15. They need to hear this truth if they are to have any hope of penitence, faith in Jesus Christ, and salvation, First Timothy 4:2-4.

Jude says, make a difference. Brother Rankin is unwilling to do that. Every Arminian's unwilling to do that. Make a difference. Put a difference. Make a difference, three verses before the end of Jude. On some have compassion. That's the penitent, those that are truly sorry for their sins and determined to forsake them. On some have compassion. Others save with fear, that is by terrorizing them about hell and hoping that that will work. Pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garments spotted by the flesh.

The last verse of Romans 1 says, who knowing the judgment of God. Never mind what Rankin and kissy-poo, lying, maudlin preachers say, they know, that in God's judgment, they're worthy of death. But they go ahead and do it anyway. This very night you fags that are here are going to be rolling around, having sex with each other's feces, and drinking each other's semen and calling that an innocent, alternate lifestyle.

If you do that willfully, Hebrews 10 comes into play. If we sin willfully, after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin. Quit telling them that God loves them. There's no more sacrifice for sin but a certain, fearful, looking for of judgment and fiery indignation which shall divide the adversary. Those are the true words of God.